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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Annotation of representative texts from Lule Sami"

Line 1: Line 1:
'''We need more''' derivational tags!
+
***'''We need more''' derivational tags!
  
 
*Here we have: låjdå'''sti'''-t:  -'''sti'''- '''momentane''' - something done only once [http://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34717 Finland Forum] - and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentane Wikipedia]: <br.>
 
*Here we have: låjdå'''sti'''-t:  -'''sti'''- '''momentane''' - something done only once [http://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34717 Finland Forum] - and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentane Wikipedia]: <br.>
Line 10: Line 10:
 
*Here we have: baje-'''di'''-htte: ''up'' '''Nspat > V''' ''rise'' ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 16:57, 9 January 2009 (CET)) <br.>
 
*Here we have: baje-'''di'''-htte: ''up'' '''Nspat > V''' ''rise'' ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 16:57, 9 January 2009 (CET)) <br.>
 
<Phrase>5749</Phrase>
 
<Phrase>5749</Phrase>
''' Context for poem bajedihtte'''
+
***''' Context for poem bajedihtte'''
  
 
Does this look ok? I have copied the TEXT in the Text editor:
 
Does this look ok? I have copied the TEXT in the Text editor:
Line 41: Line 41:
  
  
IMPORTANT: '''Adequacy of the following poem'''
+
***IMPORTANT: '''Adequacy of the following poem'''
  
 
"Vuonak": vuonaga li nievres ulmutja  
 
"Vuonak": vuonaga li nievres ulmutja  
  
Svenn Egil: DETTE DIKTET SYNES JEG IKKE PASSER PÅ TC. Det er en del personangrep mot en spesiell slekt i Sverige. Anbefaler derfor at diktet strykes fra denne listen.
+
*Svenn Egil: DETTE DIKTET SYNES JEG IKKE PASSER PÅ TC. Det er en del personangrep mot en spesiell slekt i Sverige. Anbefaler derfor at diktet strykes fra denne listen.
  
Yes, that sounds like a good reason to take this poem out of the list. Could you please briefly talk with Kristin  
+
*Yes, that sounds like a good reason to take this poem out of the list. Could you please briefly talk with Kristin  
 
about this.
 
about this.
 
([[User:Dorothee|Dorothee]] 13:25, 27 November 2008 (CET))
 
([[User:Dorothee|Dorothee]] 13:25, 27 November 2008 (CET))
  
  
'''I do not agree'''
+
*'''I do not agree'''
  
 
The poem goes:
 
The poem goes:
Line 86: Line 86:
  
  
"Niellja álmmuksubttsasa: Giehttjit áddjá goaden
+
***"Niellja álmmuksubttsasa: Giehttjit áddjá goaden
 
[Nordic folk tale]  
 
[Nordic folk tale]  
 
Translated material used in Bruce Morén’s project in phonology"
 
Translated material used in Bruce Morén’s project in phonology"
  
Denne delen tar ikke Bruce ansvar for. Han har bare digitalisert teksten fra en bok gitt ut gjennom et forlag sørpå. Jeg tror ikke vi har noen rettigheter.
+
*Denne delen tar ikke Bruce ansvar for. Han har bare digitalisert teksten fra en bok gitt ut gjennom et forlag sørpå. Jeg tror ikke vi har noen rettigheter.
  
 
Svenn-Egil
 
Svenn-Egil
  
Ok, good to know. I think we should asked Bruce which kind of permission was needed for him. As far a I know one also needs to get a permission from the publisher
+
*Ok, good to know. I think we should asked Bruce which kind of permission was needed for him. As far a I know one also needs to get a permission from the publisher
 
when one digitalizes text from a book.
 
when one digitalizes text from a book.
 
([[User:Dorothee|Dorothee]] 10:46, 26 November 2008 (CET))
 
([[User:Dorothee|Dorothee]] 10:46, 26 November 2008 (CET))
  
Tillatelsene skulle vel være i orden nå for det skriftlige materialet? ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:40, 9 January 2009 (CET))
+
*Tillatelsene skulle vel være i orden nå for det skriftlige materialet? ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:40, 9 January 2009 (CET))
  
  
Please look that he following entry repeated below:
+
***Please look that he following entry repeated below:
  
 
  "Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto, from the local newspaper"
 
  "Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto, from the local newspaper"
  
I assume that ''Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto'' is the name of the newspaper. Hm... It would be good
+
*I assume that ''Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto'' is the name of the newspaper. Hm... It would be good
 
to say in which town or 'kommune' the newspaper is published.
 
to say in which town or 'kommune' the newspaper is published.
 
'''
 
'''
Line 113: Line 113:
 
'''Lokalavis for Hamarøy, Steigen og Tysfjord'''
 
'''Lokalavis for Hamarøy, Steigen og Tysfjord'''
  
'''Lokalavisa NordSalten/Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto''' is the name of the weekly paper. We could add that it covers the area North Salten, which is the municipalities Hamarøy, Tysfjord and Steigen. ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:40, 9 January 2009 (CET))
+
*'''Lokalavisa NordSalten/Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto''' is the name of the weekly paper. We could add that it covers the area North Salten, which is the municipalities Hamarøy, Tysfjord and Steigen. ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:40, 9 January 2009 (CET))
  
  
Låjdåstibme ''Marriage''  -- Advertisement in a local newspaper by Kirsti Guvsám
+
***Låjdåstibme ''Marriage''  -- Advertisement in a local newspaper by Kirsti Guvsám
'''? Finner ikke teksten'''
+
*'''? Finner ikke teksten'''
  
'''uups!''' - I will fix it! ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:50, 9 January 2009 (CET))
+
*'''uups!''' - I will fix it! ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:50, 9 January 2009 (CET))
  
  
See also the following entry below:
+
***See also the following entry below:
  
Is ''Life and Time'' really the translation of "Viessom" ? as in:
+
*Is ''Life and Time'' really the translation of "Viessom" ? as in:
  
 
Viessom: Bivddo stuorra nuorreiellijs   
 
Viessom: Bivddo stuorra nuorreiellijs   
Line 130: Line 130:
 
Exibition text from the Arran Lule Sami Centre Museum, www.arran.no
 
Exibition text from the Arran Lule Sami Centre Museum, www.arran.no
  
'''Ja, jeg mener det. Viessom betyr: liv, livsstil, livsførsel; levetid; tilværelse; livsform, levemåte, jf. iellem'''
+
*'''Ja, jeg mener det. Viessom betyr: liv, livsstil, livsførsel; levetid; tilværelse; livsform, levemåte, jf. iellem'''
  
  
I found in one of the entries the following:
+
***I found in one of the entries the following:
  
 
'''nom > jákta, gen > jávta, = jekt (seilfartøy)'''    jacht convoy
 
'''nom > jákta, gen > jávta, = jekt (seilfartøy)'''    jacht convoy
  
I am not so sure what is meant with ''jacht convoy''  something having to do with hunting perhaps?
+
*I am not so sure what is meant with ''jacht convoy''  something having to do with hunting perhaps?
 
'''Jekt (seilfartøy) i denne sammenhengen beskrives utstillingen, når datidens fiskebåter (seilfartøy) seilet sammet, som en slags konvoi, ut mot havet. Dette må vel kanskje oversettes til fiskebåt eller seilbåt. Det er i allefall flere fiskefartøyer med seil det er snakk om her.'''  
 
'''Jekt (seilfartøy) i denne sammenhengen beskrives utstillingen, når datidens fiskebåter (seilfartøy) seilet sammet, som en slags konvoi, ut mot havet. Dette må vel kanskje oversettes til fiskebåt eller seilbåt. Det er i allefall flere fiskefartøyer med seil det er snakk om her.'''  
  
A '''jekt''' is not possible to translate into English. It is similiar to the '''cog'''s that was used of the Hanseatic tradesmen, but it is not a cog. There is a lot of research to do to find the history of the ''jekt'' - how it was developed. We can explain it as a cog-like vessel.([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:59, 9 January 2009 (CET))
+
*A '''jekt''' is not possible to translate into English. It is similiar to the '''cog'''s that was used of the Hanseatic tradesmen, but it is not a cog. There is a lot of research to do to find the history of the ''jekt'' - how it was developed. We can explain it as a cog-like vessel.([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:59, 9 January 2009 (CET))
  
  
I never heard of a  
+
***I never heard of a  
 
'''Vet ikke helt hva det menes ? Finner ikke teksten.'''
 
'''Vet ikke helt hva det menes ? Finner ikke teksten.'''
  
 
  Fishing pollock
 
  Fishing pollock
  
what is that?  :o
+
*what is that?  :o
  
 
([[User:Dorothee|Dorothee]] 11:17, 26 November 2008 (CET))
 
([[User:Dorothee|Dorothee]] 11:17, 26 November 2008 (CET))
  
It is called '''sei''' in Norwegian [http://lexin.no/lexin.html?dict=nbo-eng-maxi&ui-lang=NBO&checked-languages=E&checked-languages=N&checked-languages=B&search=sei&run-search= pollack] It is also called ''saithe'' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock pollock] ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:50, 9 January 2009 (CET))
+
*It is called '''sei''' in Norwegian [http://lexin.no/lexin.html?dict=nbo-eng-maxi&ui-lang=NBO&checked-languages=E&checked-languages=N&checked-languages=B&search=sei&run-search= pollack] It is also called ''saithe'' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock pollock] ([[User:Kristin|Kristin]] 12:50, 9 January 2009 (CET))

Revision as of 20:50, 9 January 2009

      • We need more derivational tags!
"In Finnish grammar, the momentane is a verb aspect indicating that an occurrence is sudden 
and short-lived. [...] Verbs with momentane markers are considered independent words, 
and native speakers rarely analyze them, but do synthesize them. Often the parent verb 
is not in use, leaving only the derived forms such as the momentane."

These words cover Sami, too. (Kristin 21:41, 9 January 2009 (CET))<br.>

Låjdåstijma gállasjvuohttaj Buda girkkon bårggemánon 30. bv. 2008.
“We got married (entered matrimony) in Bodø church August 30 2008 ”
Låjdåstijma
låjdåstijma
enterPAST1PLDU
Vtr
gállasjvuohttaj
gállasjvuohttaj
marriedNMLZILLSG
N
Buda
Buda
Bodø
Np
girkkon
girkkon
churchINESSSG
N
bårggemánon
bårggemánon
AugustINESSSG
N
30.
30.
30th
NUM
bv.
bv.
day
N
2008
2008
2008
NUM
  • Here we have: baje-di-htte: up Nspat > V rise (Kristin 16:57, 9 January 2009 (CET)) <br.>
bajedihtte / åjvijdihtte / ja bigodihtte / sliehpájdihtte
“rise / your heads / and discover / your cheast cloths”
bajedihtte
bajedihtte
up 2pDUIMP
Vtr
åjvijdihtte
åjvijdihtte
headACCPL2pDUPOSS
N
ja
ja
and
CONJC
bigodihtte
bigodihtte
openADJ>V2pDUIMP
Vtr
sliehpájdihtte
sliehpájdihtte
cheast_clothACCPL2pDUPOSS
N
      • Context for poem bajedihtte

Does this look ok? I have copied the TEXT in the Text editor:

Stig Gælok Urheim

tsåhke ja vájmmo <br.> (page 86)

Th. Blaasværs Forlag 1994 <br.> © Stig Riemmbe Gælok


bajedihtte <br.> åjvijgihtte <br.> ja bigodihtte <br.> sliehpájdihtte <br.>


Translation__________________________Kristin Lindbach

rise <br.> your heads <br.> and discover <br.> your chest cloths* <br.>

  • "sliehppa" is a part of the traditional costume, a chest cloth covering the opening in the front.<br.> See photo at <br.>

http://www.typecraft.org/tc2wiki/User:Svennegil (Kristin 11:17, 9 January 2009 (CET))


      • IMPORTANT: Adequacy of the following poem

"Vuonak": vuonaga li nievres ulmutja

  • Svenn Egil: DETTE DIKTET SYNES JEG IKKE PASSER PÅ TC. Det er en del personangrep mot en spesiell slekt i Sverige. Anbefaler derfor at diktet strykes fra denne listen.
  • Yes, that sounds like a good reason to take this poem out of the list. Could you please briefly talk with Kristin

about this. (Dorothee 13:25, 27 November 2008 (CET))


  • I do not agree

The poem goes:

the fjordlanders are bad people <br.> they explained <br.> their life was so much better <br.> they believed

old people's thoughts <br.> and theirs who live <br.> on the other side of the wound <br.> the iron breasts have cut <br.> into our mountains

a fjordlander am I <br.> raised on mutton <br.> and pollock

a fjordlander


This poem says something about the feelings a fjordlander gets when Samis on the other side of the border - the inlanders - are debasing his way of life - because it is strange for them.

This poem shows a part of the Sami culture that is the reality for many Samis, not only the fjordlanders in Tysfjord.

The poem says nothing about a particular family.

The poem carries a universal theme that everyone can understand.

What is not so easy to understand, is the iron breasts. I believe it is the railway from Narvik to Kiruna he is thinking about. (Kristin 12:30, 9 January 2009 (CET))


      • "Niellja álmmuksubttsasa: Giehttjit áddjá goaden

[Nordic folk tale] Translated material used in Bruce Morén’s project in phonology"

  • Denne delen tar ikke Bruce ansvar for. Han har bare digitalisert teksten fra en bok gitt ut gjennom et forlag sørpå. Jeg tror ikke vi har noen rettigheter.

Svenn-Egil

  • Ok, good to know. I think we should asked Bruce which kind of permission was needed for him. As far a I know one also needs to get a permission from the publisher

when one digitalizes text from a book. (Dorothee 10:46, 26 November 2008 (CET))

  • Tillatelsene skulle vel være i orden nå for det skriftlige materialet? (Kristin 12:40, 9 January 2009 (CET))


      • Please look that he following entry repeated below:
"Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto, from the local newspaper"
  • I assume that Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto is the name of the newspaper. Hm... It would be good

to say in which town or 'kommune' the newspaper is published. Lokalavis for Hamarøy, Steigen og Tysfjord

Also in the following entry we mention a 'local' newspaper, but again it would be better to say where the newspaper is published Lokalavis for Hamarøy, Steigen og Tysfjord

  • Lokalavisa NordSalten/Bájkkeávijssa NuorttaSállto is the name of the weekly paper. We could add that it covers the area North Salten, which is the municipalities Hamarøy, Tysfjord and Steigen. (Kristin 12:40, 9 January 2009 (CET))


      • Låjdåstibme Marriage -- Advertisement in a local newspaper by Kirsti Guvsám
  • ? Finner ikke teksten
  • uups! - I will fix it! (Kristin 12:50, 9 January 2009 (CET))


      • See also the following entry below:
  • Is Life and Time really the translation of "Viessom" ? as in:

Viessom: Bivddo stuorra nuorreiellijs "Life and Time": The catching of large sea mammals Exibition text from the Arran Lule Sami Centre Museum, www.arran.no

  • Ja, jeg mener det. Viessom betyr: liv, livsstil, livsførsel; levetid; tilværelse; livsform, levemåte, jf. iellem


      • I found in one of the entries the following:

nom > jákta, gen > jávta, = jekt (seilfartøy) jacht convoy

  • I am not so sure what is meant with jacht convoy something having to do with hunting perhaps?

Jekt (seilfartøy) i denne sammenhengen beskrives utstillingen, når datidens fiskebåter (seilfartøy) seilet sammet, som en slags konvoi, ut mot havet. Dette må vel kanskje oversettes til fiskebåt eller seilbåt. Det er i allefall flere fiskefartøyer med seil det er snakk om her.

  • A jekt is not possible to translate into English. It is similiar to the cogs that was used of the Hanseatic tradesmen, but it is not a cog. There is a lot of research to do to find the history of the jekt - how it was developed. We can explain it as a cog-like vessel.(Kristin 12:59, 9 January 2009 (CET))


      • I never heard of a

Vet ikke helt hva det menes ? Finner ikke teksten.

Fishing pollock
  • what is that?  :o

(Dorothee 11:17, 26 November 2008 (CET))

  • It is called sei in Norwegian pollack It is also called saithe pollock (Kristin 12:50, 9 January 2009 (CET))